Bit disappointed really :(

Signed up a little while ago and have just found out SQL Express can't be used on DASP. Seriously, one of the most popular FREE databases on the planet and I can't use it on DASP which has won how many awards for service in successive years? Who gives these awards then, a relative?

Wouldn't be so bad if I could buy SQL Server for $10 a month as advertised, not so, full year upfront which just sucks to be honest.

Seems to me, that the reasons given (which I haven't been able to read as the page has been removed) are no more than a cynical attempt to distract from the fact that DASP give a great discount when you join, but get double that back by forcing people to use an enterprise level database for even the most basic data management tasks.

It's not on Sir

 

No problem, no need to get defensive! Just a thought, as SQL Express is so widely used, it might be an idea to give the fact it isn't supported a prominent place on the sales pages, and your reasons for the decision you took. Most people I think would rather make an informed choice than feel like they've been conned.

Perhaps you should highlight this when advertising hosting plans, at least the people like me can make an informed choice about the hosting plan we want.

It's not like this hasn't been highlighted in the past, the answer then was "don't get upset about it". I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't be getting upset about it if I knew about it before I bought the hosting plan.

The bottom line is that if I want to have anything like a usable site, I have to learn a new database or pay 3 times the amount I initially thought, it's no joke. if I treated my customers like that I'd have none!

 

You're kidding, right? First of all, Eric's response was not defensive in the least. Secondly, there is plenty to be offended by in both of your posts, but no one from DiscountASP.NET has replied in kind, because we're cool like that. You know.

But to expand on what Eric said, as you might imagine it is not possible to list every detail related to our service. There are literally thousands of things that would have to be listed in order to describe and disclose every technical aspect of the service. Even if a host were to take on the monumental task of maintaining such a list and ensuring that it was always current and accurate, I can say with a pretty great degree of certainty that virtually no one would take the time to read it.

I base that assumption on many years of experience pointing out items in various "terms of service" to users who then feel as if important details were "hidden" from them, and buried away in a long and dull document. A TOS is long and dull by necessity, but I'm sure you see the point.

The presentation of information related to our service is something that we try to balance, but honestly, it is not an issue that we will ever be able to address to everyone's satisfaction. We strive to maintain a high level of transparency here in our forum, and openly discuss any limitations that present themselves (and there will always be limitations in a shared hosting environment) and possible remedies. So far we have not found a more effective way to deal with these issues. If you have one, we're all ears.

 

..I'm making notes for a short series of Webcasts for DASP called "On the cheap".
Not intended to be harsh at all, just Old School, for anyone who needs a cheap alternative.
Any suggestions/ideas are more than welcome. [email protected]
All the best,
Mark

 

"Secondly, there is plenty to be offended by in both of your posts"

Seriously? Where? Apart from the dig about awards which I thought when I posted it might be a bit harsh. After the response I've received I'm thinking not harsh enough.

Where do you lot get off having a go at me because I am irritated at being told the cost of hosting is $60 for the year, then finding out after I've signed up that I have to fork out another $120 (a year in advance) for db access?

"as you might imagine it is not possible to list every detail related to our service"

True, but it should be obvious to you experts that people who want to use ASP.Net hosting will more than likely want to use a DB and that many developers will be using SQLExpress, at least during the development stage. The fact that you don't support it should be highlighted, not to do so is dishonest as you know full well that most will have little option but to purchase the SQL services, paying a year in advance and tripling the cost!

"I base that assumption on many years of experience pointing out items in various "

Well I don't have your obvious expertise in pointing out where a customer should have paid more attention but I do think you have a duty to point out issues that are likely to cause difficulty of one kind or another, that are known to you. Judging from the posts here it is an issue that has been raised on numerous occasions yet you choose to take a caveat emptor approach. Not good!

"So far we have not found a more effective way to deal with these issues. If you have one, we're all ears."

In the highly unlikely event that you mean that, really simple, here is your DB addon info, notice the single line added at the end

SQL is an addon to the
base ASP.NET hosting plan
SQL 2008 SQL 2005


General SQL Hosting Features:
Separate Microsoft SQL Servers
SQL Management Studio Access
SQL Mgt. Studio Express Access
NEW Web-based SQL Manager
Stored Procedure Support
DBO Access
Full Text Search
ASP.NET SQL Session
SQL Login Manager
NEW Real-Time SQL Backup
NEW SQL Restore Tool
NEW Shrink SQL DB Tool
NEW Attach MDF Tool
Transfer SQL Express/SQL DB
to hosted SQL Database

SQL 2008 Hosting Features:
SQL 2008 64-bit Edition
Language Integrated Query/LINQ
Geospatial Data Types
New Date/Time Data Types
Sparse Columns
Large User-Defined Types

SQL 2005 Hosting Features:
XML Data Types
XQuery
T-SQL Enhancements
Multiple Active Result Set (MARS)
SQL Native Client
SQL Dependency

Addon Reporting Option
SQL 2005 Reporting Services

NB SQL Express is not supported

You could even push the envelope and make it a link to the MS page that explains why. I certainly wouldn't have been put off by this, in fact it would go some way to confirming that your company is one that can be trusted and I'd happily hand lots of money to you.

Wisemx says about doing things on the cheap. Its a bit condescending to assume that anyone who complains about this must be strapped for cash. I've been a contracting developer for over 20 years so you should understand it has nothing to do with money.

It's more about honesty and trust, I don't trust your company now and that makes it difficult for me to use your services. I realise you don't care about that, your company is successful so what do a few whining customers matter eh?

Thanks for you time
Steve

 

When someone makes a post like yours I always assume that I can respond in kind, using similar language. I only pointed out that your message was insulting. If that's too harsh, I better just pack up my tent now, because to me that was just conversation.

This is all conversation. We are not robots. "If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?"

Just saying. No offense meant.

 

...Should I create a Webcast on why SQL Express is not used and why Microsoft recommends that it should not?
(There are a bunch of links I've posted on this in the past.)

 

I'd say this would be worthwhile, but I think it would also be a good idea to explain the database platforms readily supported and available on DiscountASP.NET and explore other compatible db products.

In general with respect to databases and using the DASP web site as the definitive source, the following is clear. If you need to use a database with your web application you currently have a choice of:

• Adding a SQL Server 2005 database as a chargeable add-on option
• Adding a SQL Server 2008 database as a chargeable add-on option
• Using an MS Access flat file database - no charge

In addition to these current options, I'd like to know if there are any objections or concerns on the use of this file based serverless database on the DASP web servers - http://www.vistadb.net/

 

It looks like we'll need to install the drivers for this database on the server so you can connect to it.

 

To continue the conversation, I've started a VistaDB specific thread here: http://community.discountasp.net/showthread.php?t=8206

 

Bit irrational really

Stefal, seriously, you must have had a specific need to sign up to a webhost. Do you not compare your needs against the services offered by a webhost when you compare them against each other?

The mistake is yours. MySQL is offered there as a free database and that certainly has a wide following.

If you don't do your homework, don't go blaming others.

 

I created my DB in SQL Express and then simply used the attach tool. Works fine? I can also connect to it using management studio express...and run sql scripts etc to make updates, selects etc...

 

Not Impressed either

Well I am new to this stuff, however it is my understaning most people associate asp.net with a database and to not offer Express (like other companies do) and charge extra for database use seems a tad shady/underhanded. I too need a simple database in my site and find it ridiculous I would have to triple my cost to do so. As a result I will be asking to use the '30-day money back' clause.



HardRockHaddy

 

== msaccess == free!

 

I understand you are new to this so maybe I can shed some light. asp.net and SQL are different things - they are no more associated than java and mysql or your computer and an internet connection. SQL Express isnt supported for security and performance reasons. Microsoft is clear about what their products are designed to be used for. Access, Express, Standard, etc, they all have their place.

In regards to being "shady" - If you notice on our site our pricing structure is very plain. Features that are included have a big green check mark, and non included addons have a price. You dont need to dig through several pages to figure this out. Its all there on one page. http://www.discountasp.net/features.aspx

As far as "Other hosts", sure there are some that offer it for free. There are also a lot of things that they do that you might not be so happy about. Like putting everybody in the same application pool, running sites on kmart hardware, or not allowing full trust. I could go on and on. Im not saying our product is for everyone, or that we walk on water. if you are looking for something cheap and simple thats perfectly ok. There is nothing wrong with that. That doesn't translate into us being shady or underhanded though.

 

And don't forget, Microsoft themselves say that shared hosts should not support SQL Express.

Shared hosting: SQL Server Express Edition is NOT RECOMMENDED for shared (multi-tenant) hosting as the scale limits and memory handling do not allow it to meet the requirements of such an environment. SQL Server Standard Edition or Enterprise Edition are the best choice for shared hosting.

- Mike Wachal
- SQL Express team

 

I did not read the whole thread so I might be missing something here, but why not buy a copy of SQL Server Developer Edition for $50 and be done with it. See SQL Server Developer Edition .. it's got all the stuff you need without the limitations of Express... which is basically an stripped down demo version that does not expire.

** EDIT ** never mind, I should have read the thread from start... I have no idea why someone would want to do that...

 

DASP, I Just read this, and i want to say, Yes we do face some problems but you are doing good job.
Good Luck....

 

stefal, I agree with you. I think they should make it more clear that SQL Express is not supported. I have spent 30 minutes searching their overwhelmingly cluttered site looking for an answer on whether it was supported or not, and only found out for sure after reading this post!

I use SQL Express and I expect a cheap host to support it. Tripling the cost for a quick cheap site just to support the database that I am used to using is just rude. But if they have to do it that way, at least make the facts clear. A small note (not even in bold) in the database section to indicate that SQL Express is not supported would be the responsible thing to do.

I am just a drop in the bucket, I know, but I will be moving on with the handful of other whining users. Although, having been in the industry for 15 years, I have quite a network built up to whine to. And I do like to pass on my experiences with companies to my network of paying customers.

Like stefal said, I would have been more inclined to put up with the lack of support for SQL Express, but it is the sly, marketing-weasel way of hiding behind the awards that has really turned me off. I have a large collection of sites (70+) with another host, and was looking for a new place to call home. I will not be moving them to DiscountASP.net.

Better luck with the next guy.

 

Way to come out swinging in your first post! Funny how you one post guys come and make these negative comments and leave. A cynical person could infer a lot from that. Not me, you know. Just saying.

Microsoft says that shared hosts should not support SQL Express. I'm not sure which part of that is confusing so many people.

When you find a host that lists what they don't support, please come back and post a link to that page. I would like to see it.

 

I find it somewhat amusing and simultaneously bewildering people would ASK for a product that would only gimp themselves in terms of performance and their host in terms of creating a maintenance/support nightmare. Something I had to realize is that, when I wanted my site, I wanted it to be up and when I had issues someone will be there to take care of me. That costs money. A cheap host will not be there for you when you can't connect to MS SQL Server Express Edition or otherwise. DiscountASP.NET is not the several hundred dollars per month that a host like Rackspace is, but I always have prompt responses to my tickets and there's not been a single time I've gone to view my page and my site has been down due to DASP.NET.

Furthermore, they have a Pre-Sales forum where you can ask niche questions like, "Is this or that version of product x supported?" It's YOUR responsibility to make sure the host fits your needs PRIOR to signing up with them. It is rude and selfish of you to try and make the host conform to your idea of how you think they should operate. In the world of business you either take a deal or leave it. If you don't like the deal DASP.NET is offering then move on. If you would like to leave a polite comment saying why you didn't choose them then that's your prerogative. However, to come and EXPECT them to change puts you out of line.

I've been through DOZENS of ultra cheap hosts and they've all fell through for me either in terms of support or performance and not to mention my sites, or rather I should say my hosts, have been hacked which means they don't have secure systems. No, I think I'll stay where I am and pay a few extra bucks every quarter to make sure I have a fast, secure and reliable service.

 

Thanks hoagieland. I think this has been explained to death, so I am going to close the thread. If someone wants to bring it up again (not that there is any need to) they can start fresh.