Although MS Access is handy for quick and lightweight development, a lot of the stuff that I want to try I'd like something with a bit more power. Is there any chance that discountASP might consider allowing its customers to use MySQL? Pretty much all unix based hosting services provide it free of charge. The amount of processor power is minimal, but the value to the customer is high. If I beg, will that help? Thanks! [8)]Nash[8]
Capkix We are evaluating mySQL, but cannot provide any guarantees at this time. We do offer MS SQL as an addon. discountASP.NET
IMHO you guys shouldn't become a we offer-all-options place. Sticking with a MSFT/.NET focus and expanding your services around this core should give you a competitive edge that allows you to focus your efforts and still serve a sizeable portion of the market. Just the fact that you have a PHP mail server almost decided me to look elsewhere. Of course my opinion is guaranteed to be worth every cent you paid for it.[8D] Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound)
Not trying to attack or defend anyone or anything, either - just counseling Discount not to go off message. <grin>. But I love discussing merits of software and approaches to development. (Wanna start a thread about XP vs customer-centric dvelopment?) Access is horible once you take it off a single-use desktop, agreed. But MSDE is free (as an add-in to other M$FT products)and has all of the functionality of SQL-Server (i.e. it is one of the 4 real enterprise-class DBMS, not a wanna-be.) The good news is that you can use MSDE to develop against at home and rent space and time from the kind folks here at discount. The prices for the on-line SQL Server offered here are extremely reasonable, and IMHO, if one is marketing a product to serious customers, one needs to prove that one and one's product are serious, too. (I am questioning no-one's seriousness, here. I am talking about marketing.) One of my duties is to recommend software packages to my bosses. If I found out that something I was interested in, was written against any of the freeware stuff, I'd politely suggest that they recontact us, once they'd ported it over and proved that they could make it work well in the real world. By the way, if you get a universal subscription to MSDN ($850 for students, $2500, for working stiffs), you get a copy of all the non-game software MSFT makes, to be used for development. i.e. I can develop my apps against my MSDN SQL Server, using my MSDN VS (Architect) and my MSDN Front Page, against my MSDN XP Tablet edition, etc. but I have to pay for the production platforms that are accessed by any clients, customers or curious passers-by. Anothter benefit to having MSDN is advance copies of everything. I've been using Everett (VS 2003) for months now, thanks to MSDN. quote:Originally posted by capkix I normally find myself defending .NET and MS, and with this subject I don't think that I am assailing them at all. The fact of the matter is that there are unlimited situations where Access is a horable db option, and SQL Server is overkill (not to mention expensive). A lot of the applications that I'm putting together gain serious benefit from having an eneterprise level database, and function fine on a free MySQL server. Should these apps be purchased by someone who wants to use SQL Server, it takes but a minute to configure the .Net app to use it. quote:Originally posted by JonO IMHO you guys shouldn't become a we offer-all-options place. Sticking with a MSFT/.NET focus and expanding your services around this core should give you a competitive edge that allows you to focus your efforts and still serve a sizeable portion of the market. Just the fact that you have a PHP mail server almost decided me to look elsewhere. Of course my opinion is guaranteed to be worth every cent you paid for it.[8D] Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound) </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound)
Jon, Thank you for your honest opinion. Rest assure that discountasp.net's focus will remain with MS & .NET technology. Our team comprise of system administrators from different background (both Windows & UNIX). To be very honest, we believed there are certain thing that can be better handled on a Windows Platform and others are better on the UNIX platform. For instance, we decided to go with a UNIX based mail server because it provide us with the stability and cost effectiveness that no Windows based mail server can offer. The PHP webmail is just a free interface that we found very good. We have evaluated other ASP / ASP.net based interface but the cost benefit is not justify. Just so you know, our mail system provision interface is created with a webservice frontend. We also believe that offering alternatives (mySQL & PHP) to our users can satisfy more customer's requirements. Thanks again for your suggestions. PS. Keep an eye out in the next several months, we will be launching many exciting features (including IIS6, commercial ASP.net components, etc.) quote:Originally posted by JonO IMHO you guys shouldn't become a we offer-all-options place. Sticking with a MSFT/.NET focus and expanding your services around this core should give you a competitive edge that allows you to focus your efforts and still serve a sizeable portion of the market. Just the fact that you have a PHP mail server almost decided me to look elsewhere. Of course my opinion is guaranteed to be worth every cent you paid for it.[8D] Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound) </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Jon, Thanks for further adding clarity to your opinion. I interpreted the intent of your origional post as more a negative reply towards MySQL, and not as the general adivice for marketing and specialized operation that I now think you had intended. I agree with what you said about the MSDE as an excellent tool for developing with enterprise DBMS (Side question, you know of anyone who's made a down-and-dirty GUI that can sit on the MSDE?). So, I guess the question discountASP has to ask itself is whether or not people looking to buy their services will consider MySQL a serious database application... which is a whole other bag of beans. Thanks, Jon. Cheers, Nash
First of all, thanks everyone for their honest opinion to our service. And, true, we are listening very seriously to our customer. Let me address Nash's question, if you use MSDE and want to have some sort of GUI, check this out, http://www.aspenterprisemanager.com It's a real kick ass interface. quote:Originally posted by capkix Jon, Thanks for further adding clarity to your opinion. I interpreted the intent of your origional post as more a negative reply towards MySQL, and not as the general adivice for marketing and specialized operation that I now think you had intended. I agree with what you said about the MSDE as an excellent tool for developing with enterprise DBMS (Side question, you know of anyone who's made a down-and-dirty GUI that can sit on the MSDE?). So, I guess the question discountASP has to ask itself is whether or not people looking to buy their services will consider MySQL a serious database application... which is a whole other bag of beans. Thanks, Jon. Cheers, Nash
I normally find myself defending .NET and MS, and with this subject I don't think that I am assailing them at all. The fact of the matter is that there are unlimited situations where Access is a horable db option, and SQL Server is overkill (not to mention expensive). A lot of the applications that I'm putting together gain serious benefit from having an eneterprise level database, and function fine on a free MySQL server. Should these apps be purchased by someone who wants to use SQL Server, it takes but a minute to configure the .Net app to use it. quote:Originally posted by JonO IMHO you guys shouldn't become a we offer-all-options place. Sticking with a MSFT/.NET focus and expanding your services around this core should give you a competitive edge that allows you to focus your efforts and still serve a sizeable portion of the market. Just the fact that you have a PHP mail server almost decided me to look elsewhere. Of course my opinion is guaranteed to be worth every cent you paid for it.[8D] Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound) </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
at http://www.msde.biz I found: "MSDE Query provides a free Windows desktop GUI interface for performing SQL against MSDE 2000 and Microsoft SQL Server 2000. The MSDE Query tool is similar to the Microsoft SQL Query Analyser, but is at a fraction of the price (i.e. FREE). Using the MSDE Query tool you can perform a whole host of functions. A knowledge of SQL allows you to manage the Microsoft Database Engine and perform SQL Queries such as backups, restores, creating tables, truncating transaction logs etc." and they sell for little money a back/restore utility as well as an admin app. Alternately, you could use Access as a front end. As to which dbms makes the most sense to look at there's no place to go to get the unvarnished truth better than the transaction processing council. The full membership includes every major DBMS-manufacturer, platform-provider and server-manufacturer. They don't seem to have an axe to grind - except faster and cheaper is better than slower and more expensive. They rate a number of systems using 4 major benchmarks - transactions per hour, raw query speed and price, prepared query speed and price, and web transactions speed and price. There are lots of belief-systems and true-believers out there - but the TPC is about the facts. http://www.tpc.org/default.asp j quote:Originally posted by capkix Jon, Thanks for further adding clarity to your opinion. I interpreted the intent of your origional post as more a negative reply towards MySQL, and not as the general adivice for marketing and specialized operation that I now think you had intended. I agree with what you said about the MSDE as an excellent tool for developing with enterprise DBMS (Side question, you know of anyone who's made a down-and-dirty GUI that can sit on the MSDE?). So, I guess the question discountASP has to ask itself is whether or not people looking to buy their services will consider MySQL a serious database application... which is a whole other bag of beans. Thanks, Jon. Cheers, Nash </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound)
Hey guys, Just thought I would chime in with my two cents. I think there is probably a lot of value for us to launch a MySQL database service. Mainly because I don't think Nash is alone in wanting a database that falls in between the world of access and SQL Server. MySQL is also turning into a pretty reputable database as far as functionality. It has always been a bit of a killer app for web based applications because of it's robustness with simple queries. Which is the bread and butter for a web app, though it does fall off when you want to start doing serious applications that are transaction intense. Thanks for the great input guys, information like this will allow us to make much better decisions concerning our products/services. (oh ya, BTW I am one of the Evil Unix guys) [}] quote:Originally posted by capkix Jon, Thanks for further adding clarity to your opinion. I interpreted the intent of your origional post as more a negative reply towards MySQL, and not as the general adivice for marketing and specialized operation that I now think you had intended. I agree with what you said about the MSDE as an excellent tool for developing with enterprise DBMS (Side question, you know of anyone who's made a down-and-dirty GUI that can sit on the MSDE?). So, I guess the question discountASP has to ask itself is whether or not people looking to buy their services will consider MySQL a serious database application... which is a whole other bag of beans. </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> --- Richard Behind the ...[8]. .
I'm not goint to touch this one [] I am not a database expert by trade, but I have watch one to many heated conversations over tpc benchmarks. They usually involve a Oracle Advocate Vs. SQL Server Advocate. I think I will slide out of this by saying my preffered database is the one customers purchase from DiscountASP. [}] quote: They rate a number of systems using 4 major benchmarks - transactions per hour, raw query speed and price, prepared query speed and price, and web transactions speed and price. There are lots of belief-systems and true-believers out there - but the TPC is about the facts. http://www.tpc.org/default.asp </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> --- Richard Behind the ...[8]. .
I imagine they sound a bit like the ones between the J2EE crowd and the .NET crowd - but they both remind me of the conversations between the folks who stuck with C/PM versus those who switched to MSDOS...or the arguments between the OS2 advocates and the NT advocates...and the Netscape boys versus the IE gang....hmm...anybody notice a pattern here? [] quote:Originally posted by rhurtz I'm not goint to touch this one [] I am not a database expert by trade, but I have watch one to many heated conversations over tpc benchmarks. They usually involve a Oracle Advocate Vs. SQL Server Advocate. I think I will slide out of this by saying my preffered database is the one customers purchase from DiscountASP. [}] --- Richard Behind the ...[8]. . </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound)
My roomate really made me think the other day... I was complaining about troubles I was having with a GUI made for MySQL. He told me, in his never-ever-ever wrong way, "Well, why don't you go and ask for your money back?" Two bits... see how far it can get you. NP PS: This is here instead of in the DB section cuz, well, nobody in the DB section will prolly find this useful if MySQL is never implemented, but you folks might find it interesting. A crew working through SourceForge.net, an open source development commune, has developed the greatest thing... https://sourceforge.net/projects/mysqlnet/ They have developed pretty damned robust data access objects to snap in for VS.NET. I converted a large VB program that I had using MSDN in about 10 minutes today. Copied the library file into the project directory, did 'add reference', added the 'imports ' statement to the top of the code, and did a 'replace' for 'SqlClient.' with MySqlClient.' which changed all of my code over. After literally two minutes of debugging, everything worked, lickitty-split. I'm gonna throw together a quick program to do simple benchmarks and make it available. I'll do it so it can be an example of using MSDE, Access, and MySQL data access objects. Cheers!
Try this code. <?php $to = "[email protected]"; $subject = "Test Mail from PHP"; $out = str_pad("This is a test", 20); mail($to, $subject, $out); exit; ?> quote:Originally posted by eurocenterp Hi there. First of all excuse my English. I come from the world of Unix/Linux/Apache/openSSL/php/mySQL. The only thing that brings me here is that now I have to take care of a site that was developed using MS SQL 2000, FrontPage and asp. That site had to be moved and discountASP offered the appropriate hosting at the best price. BUT. Since this is my first experience with the MS owned "technology" I found myself lost. The straightforward logic of my world is gone. Insted it seems that the curse of MFC is coming back: everything I could use does it all, except the only thing I need it for. I think you already figured out that there's only one place in my web developer heart and mySQL has it. Now I have a question. I post it here, because I haven't found a php topic and the support staff advised me to do so. bool mail( string to, string subject, string message [, string additional_headers [, string additional_parameters]]) is there a chance to have it working on discountASP? love, Rob p.s. my room-mate is a Linux fanatic and the only thing I can tell him is: your crosoft is much better than my crosoft. Rob </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi there. First of all excuse my English. I come from the world of Unix/Linux/Apache/openSSL/php/mySQL. The only thing that brings me here is that now I have to take care of a site that was developed using MS SQL 2000, FrontPage and asp. That site had to be moved and discountASP offered the appropriate hosting at the best price. BUT. Since this is my first experience with the MS owned "technology" I found myself lost. The straightforward logic of my world is gone. Insted it seems that the curse of MFC is coming back: everything I could use does it all, except the only thing I need it for. I think you already figured out that there's only one place in my web developer heart and mySQL has it. Now I have a question. I post it here, because I haven't found a php topic and the support staff advised me to do so. bool mail( string to, string subject, string message [, string additional_headers [, string additional_parameters]]) is there a chance to have it working on discountASP? love, Rob p.s. my room-mate is a Linux fanatic and the only thing I can tell him is: your crosoft is much better than my crosoft. Rob
The folks that want to use mySQL instead of SQL Server don't know what they are missing as far as web host pricing. 50 MB of SQL Server space for $10/mo. is money well spent (I switched from a host that provided 15 MB SQL Server (db and log files) for $36/mo extra). There are many other web hosts out there are already setup to provide mySQL for free in its intended space. If discountASP offered mySQL for $10/mo., would they still want mySQL or SQL Server for the same money? I've used the mySQL database management utility for Windows and it does not come close to the usability the SQL Server client programs Enterprise Manager and Query Analyzer provide. These utilities can be downloaded from Microsoft or found on numerous CD's. DiscountASP, I hope you don't add features that aren't intended for Windows to the ASP/ASP.NET hosting environment. This is why I switched my hosting plan to you guys. You can't be all things to all people and you are targeting Windows web developers. This is a direct quote from your web site on the About Us link: "DiscountASP.NET is a Microsoft Windows-based shared webhosting service provider. Our mission is to deliver the best value in advanced ASP and ASP.NET hosting. Focus Unlike competitors who try to be everything to everybody by supporting every type of hosting platform under the sun, DiscountASP.NET focuses all of our resources in providing the most affordable, reliable, fast, cutting-edge, and feature-rich advanced Microsoft Active Server Page and Microsoft .NET web hosting. Our platform is perfect for devlopers looking for cutting edge technology at affordable rates."
"The folks that want to use mySQL instead of SQL Server don't know what they are missing as far as web host pricing." I agree that discountASP.NET has done an excellent job providing MS SQL Server to its customers at very reasonable prices. It seems unlikely that there would be any additional charge for MySQL use (would function in the same fashion as Access). "I've used the mySQL database management utility for Windows and it does not come close" Most people who use utilize MySQL do NOT use the utility you are refering to. Most web hosting companies will use a web interface for their customers. Because someone doesn't like an extranious GUI, you should not discredit the actual application. "DiscountASP, I hope you don't add features that aren't intended for Windows to the ASP/ASP.NET hosting environment. This is why I switched my hosting plan to you guys." How do you figure that since the project was started with Linux that it is not a fully functional, stable Windows application? The company that develops MySQL and the thousands of others who support the development have ensured that MySQL works (and works well) in the Windwows ASP.NET hosting environment. A Windows environment does NOT mean that everything being used was purchased from Micro$oft. "You can't be all things to all people and you are targeting Windows web developers." No, you can't be. But you can try to be a damn good provider to the people you have. I am a Windows web developer. I don't even know how to USE Linux, much less Unix. I would not utilize a Linux based hosting service. However, as a Windows developer, I want to have the most effective and efficient tools available to me (AND I wanna keep some money in my pocket). MySQL has become an excellent option. (as quoted) "providing the most affordable, reliable, fast, cutting-edge, and feature-rich advanced"... Hmm... all of those buzz words from the focus statement describe MySQL. Ok... enough ranting. Sorry for going off at such length, TourneyManager. And please know that my argument is not personal whatsoever. -Nash PS: JonO, thanks so much for the link to the free MSDE app. It has proven to be very useful since I started using it!
At the risk of reopening a dying topic (I've been busy) I just want to say that to my mind, your roomate defined MySQL's vulnerability admirably. Customers/employers - real-world people who will PAY you to write code -- want or need to have a place where they can get their money back if something doesn't work right. Right now my team is looking for a VB/ASP/.NET developer who has database experience. Guess which one? Everyone who said MySQL, go to the end of the line. On the tech interview anyone who explains that Access or MySQL is good enough experience to start doing SQLServer has just shot themselves in the foot. I just went out to DICE.Com and did a job search on SQLServer (1996 jobs listed) and on mySQL (61 jobs listed). It doesn't matter how good mySQL is, it doesn't matter how cheap it is. It's an Edsel, a Betamax, an OS2. There's no market for it. Glad the link helped. Jon (Information doesn't want to be free, it wants to be sixty-nine cents @ pound)
One more thing to consider - there are a few ready made bits and pieces that include built in support for MySQL, www.movabletype.org/ for example. Cheers, G.
quote:Originally posted by JonO At the risk of reopening a dying topic (I've been busy) I just want to say that to my mind, your roomate defined MySQL's vulnerability admirably. Customers/employers - real-world people who will PAY you to write code -- want or need to have a place where they can get their money back if something doesn't work right. </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Jon, I didn't elaborate on the point about my roomate's comments well enough. While selling customers products using MySQL, I suggest that you include in the bill the several hundreds of dollars to get them a commercial license. Hell, even buy the support. A year of direct telephone access to the developers goes for a whopping 9,000 dollars. Whats a one processor license and a year of telephone support for MS SQL Server cost? The situation I had where I 'got what I paid for' was because I didn't shell out the 60 bucks to buy a personal copy of an enterprise level database for myself. quote:Right now my team is looking for a VB/ASP/.NET developer who has database experience. Guess which one? Everyone who said MySQL, go to the end of the line. On the tech interview anyone who explains that Access or MySQL is good enough experience to start doing SQLServer has just shot themselves in the foot. </blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> And, you're right John, this is not the most common database out there, with a small percentage of the open job market. But that doesn't mean its an Edsel. MySQL popularity is growing. I'm sure you read at least a couple of industry magazines and have seen the recent articles in Business week (stating 30,000 downloads of the database software a DAY), the 19.5 million dollar investment led by Benchmark Capital, being named to the SD Times top 100 list, the New York Times article about the upcoming SAP partnership, and these things within the past two weeks. This is not a product receiving an axe half way thru the first production year. I think everyone will be surprised, even in the next sixth months, at the growth to come. This all does not mean I want to discredit microsoft. I, myself, am a VB/ASP/.NET programmer and I believe that I work with quality products. Its just I'm hyped-up about other technologies entering the mix that I'm in. It made me excited when I replaced my MS Sql Server DAO opbjects in a web app with ones for MySQL and I got great performance under load. But I also realistically see that MySQL is not a direct replacement for the Microsoft lexicon (at least not in the immediate future). I will continue to use MS Sql Server, but I will also explore new technologies for application in my work. So, to make a long story short... How much are looking to pay that developer you're hiring? Thanks, Jon. -Nash
Congratulations on the implementation of MySQL. Might I suggest you look into providing the excellent MySQL web admin tool, www.phpmyadmin.net/.
